Gary Wallace (00:00): For Tech Tuesday this week, we're crossing to our regular correspondent, Daniel Watson. He's not in his regular place, he's in Nashville. And being overseas has got him thinking about cyber tips for traveling. Daniel [foreign language 00:14:48].
Daniel Watson (00:13): Gary Wallace.
Gary Wallace (00:14): What's taking you to Nashville.
Daniel Watson (00:16): I'm over in Nashville for an IT conference, which is a lot about sales and marketing, but it's overall business information. It's good. It's good. It's a great place to be actually Nashville is, it's like the size of Hamilton, but super, super awesome.
Gary Wallace (00:33): It's the size of Hamilton. I always thought it was a bit bigger, but it's not so big.
Daniel Watson (00:39): No, no, not, not at all, but it's growing massively. I've been here for a few times over the years and each time I get here, it's just you notice the changes pretty much like Hamilton, right?
Gary Wallace (00:49): Yeah. Has it got your thinking about cybersecurity while traveling?
Daniel Watson (00:56): Yeah. So there's been a couple of things which I've noticed now these, we're getting to this point where New Zealand's about to open up and everybody's going to bomb burst out and go out to all the Pacific islands and that kind of stuff. And they're going to be super, super excited. People are going to be taking selfies and that kind of stuff. Right. And I recalled a... There was a news article, I think it was 2015 where a woman who is at like the Melbourne cup or something. And she, she won her gambling ticket. She won the race, right? So she was so excited. She took a selfie of her with the winning slip right now that winning slip had the full barcode, right. By the time she went to claim it, somebody had already been there and got the money out.
So she'd completely lost out. Right. So also when you're like, people do this with boarding passes right on the boarding pass is a QR code down the side of it. Mm. And you're thinking, well, on the boarding pass, it doesn't really say much. You might have your name on it, but that QR code gives a great deal of information. Right. So it just having that, it can be scanned off a picture off the internet and put into say, United Airlines travel system. And with that, and like the confirmation number, which is on the boarding pass, they can actually go in and change the travel tickets.
So there are plenty of travel out the internet you're thinking, well, what, what harm could that be? Well, there's actually quite a lot of info. Like your full name, your email address and things like that. Right. That can be gathered from that account. But if they can mess with your travel, like for no other reason, just to ruin somebody's day, people on the internet will do that. So the word of caution there is just pay attention to what you're putting out there on the internet. You know, you can just kind of keep your thumb over it perhaps, but generally there's a bad habit of oversharing out there.
Gary Wallace (03:01): Yeah. First of all, that's incredible. And what a tragic story about the woman who lost all that money, just because of a simple barcode, but it makes you think really just how much information can be gleaned from such a simple thing as a barcode.
Daniel Watson (03:20): Yeah, that's right. Because it usually is, it's something that's been handed to you and you only, but it's a gateway to even more information, right. So there's, the airlines have to do a bit of a trade off. Right. If they make it too difficult, then they just can be dealing with loads of people missing their flights, or when they try to... They need to go in and change their booking or whatever like that. Right. So there's always a compromise between convenience and security, but you know, at the end, it's up to the individual to secure that information themselves.
Gary Wallace (03:52): What are some of the common tricks? What are some of the other common tricks to... Or that you come across?
Daniel Watson (04:00): Yeah. So typically when you're traveling, like in terms of cybersecurity, airports are great places for people to try and steal credentials in terms that it's quite easy for a hacker to set up a rogue wireless access point in a place where lots of people congregate. Right? So imagine you're going to Los Angeles airport, and you want to... You're sitting on the arrivals hall, which is probably going to take you about three quarters of an hour to get through. I'm afraid it's atrocious. It's not like back home. You're going to be bored to tears. And if you, if you don't have a roaming account, you're going to be looking for the wireless local, the airport wireless access point to get onto the internet. So you can, download something from RNZ perhaps maybe listen to one of the programs on Saturday morning.
So you'll go and start up your phone. You'll have a look and look for what network IDs are available to you. And it would be quite difficult for you to know which is the right one.
Gary Wallace (05:12): Of course.
Daniel Watson (05:12): It becomes easy for a hacker to go, right? Well, I'm just going to start one up and get people to connect through me. Now it could get you out to the internet, but they will be siphoning off whatever information. Cause as soon as that, as soon as your machine connects through on their network, they can do man in the middle attacks where they can see what sites you're trying to get access to. And if the site's not fully encrypted, you might be just, if, as soon as your computer logs on to the network for your email, what have you, it could be siphoning off the passwords and that kind of stuff, which would then be used later on to do an attack. It's not usually a direct pathway to...
Gary Wallace (05:55): That is extraordinary. And that's a gold piece of information now because you know, more and more people are starting to travel overseas. Would never have thought of it, Daniel, you go to, for example, LA airport and you scan for the remote access and you see LA underscore air underscore two and looks to be free click.
Daniel Watson (06:24): Yeah, sure.
Gary Wallace (06:25): Wow.
Daniel Watson (06:26): And that would be it because there's, you may not notice anything then you won't think of that as being the cause.
Gary Wallace (06:32): Of course.
Daniel Watson (06:32): And there's, there's lots of times when people say, look, I don't know how I was hacked for sure. It could be any one of a number of things that you've done in the last, I don't know, year. Right? Which makes it really hard for people like myself, who, who are cyber security, professionals to kind of track down what it was that led to a later event. You know, you have to be lucky every single time. Whereas the hacker only has to get lucky once. But in terms of other things to think about when you're traveling is, you know, if you don't, you need to have a password on your phone. Cause somebody like, if you're standing out in the street doing a selfie or something like that, and it may not be a safe area, it might be a safe area, but somebody just comes along, runs past snatches your phone and hikes off of it because Hey, an iPhone 13 is a good, is a good 1400 bucks worth of.
Gary Wallace (07:24): Yeah.
Daniel Watson (07:24): Electronics that you're waving around in the air. Then if it's not got a, like a passcode on or a pin, then they're going to be straight into a large number of your applications that may not require you to have a password, or you've already saved the password on it. So that's well worth considering. And I'd also point out that when you cross borders, these days more governments are potentially going to ask you for your social media IDs. And if you're subject to a search, then your electronic devices may also be subject to a search. And you may be demanded to unlock your devices.
Gary Wallace (08:15): Does that happen? Does that happen?
Daniel Watson (08:17): Yeah, that can happen. Yeah. I mean yeah. When you're traveling, you're quite vulnerable in a lot of ways. So, and if you're traveling to a place which is not particularly friendly to New Zealand, then you've got to consider those kind of things as well. Like if you're taking a work computer, there, is there stuff on the work computer that if it gets compromised, when it's stolen, you might get a bit of trouble with your employer, but hopefully they've got good IT people, and they've got it all encrypted and there's no big deal.
Gary Wallace (08:54): Talking tech today with Daniel Watson, regular correspondent, who is in Nashville at the moment. So do people get caught out through complacency or do people get caught out through sheer? Not knowing I would never have thought for example, about that internet access at an airport.
Daniel Watson (09:16): Yeah. No, it is. Well, that's why I spend a lot of time talking about this kind of thing with my clients in general, because it is stuff that you wouldn't know, it's really hard to defend the things that you don't know exist as a thing in the first place. And these days we not many people actually understand the technology that we use. We just use it. Right. Like, I don't know how to fix my car. I'm a complete numpty when it comes to mechanical engineering. Right. So, but I rely on people to do that for me. Right. So, but if you have a little bit of knowledge on... Oh, I don't know, what would it be? I'm not going to try and fix it myself. I'll just make it worse, but there are some things that are well worth. Everybody knowing, like making sure that you keep the oil topped up and the radiator full, and that you've got air in the tires. Right. Cause those kind of things will prevent greater damage in the long run.
Gary Wallace (10:15): So what are the best types of tech to use then Daniel, if you are a constant traveler?
Daniel Watson (10:22): If you're a constant traveler
Gary Wallace (10:31): Or if you're traveling
Daniel Watson (10:35): I wouldn't stress out too much. If you're going traveling, you're going to need access. Like so many apps are very, very useful. Like boarding passes are available, that you can do all the travel changes, that kind of stuff. I would give a shout out to travel agents, right? Because they'll make your life a lot easier. Because if, even if you lose your phone, as long as you know to call one place back home in New Zealand, then that person can give you a lot of assistance.
Gary Wallace (11:03): Right.
Daniel Watson (11:03): Whereas if you've booked everything online then ultimately it's up to you, right. If you've somehow managed to that's a good tip, give yourself only 15 minutes between connections between Dallas and Nashville. Then you're going to be stressing out now who needs that? If you're on holiday, travel is stressful anyway, you know, so that's probably a non technology tip, but
Gary Wallace (11:27): Ultimately it is great. Great tip. Yeah.
Daniel Watson (11:28): Yeah. So...
Gary Wallace (11:32): You can be, you can be out travel correspondent. How about that? Just tick and just tick and travel. I'm going to broaden your horizons without [inaudible 00:11:40] knowing. Hey...
Daniel Watson (11:41): I'd love to do that. Will I get tickets?
Gary Wallace (11:44): No. You won't get tickets Daniel. Hey, now what might people be missing out on if they're sticking analog? Like my producer, Rob, what could he be gaining by giving up the paper tickets and notebook?
Daniel Watson (11:59): Well, I...
Gary Wallace (12:00): Because that's what he is doing. Like
Daniel Watson (12:01): If he's happy, if he's happy doing the way he is doing, then I wouldn't disturb that realistically. Well, look, I love having my devices on me know when it's a good distraction. I can see what's on the news. I can see what's coming. I can see what the weather is at the destination, right? Cause I've, I've stepped off the plane before and you go from LA to somewhere in Dallas and it can actually, you know, one place is sunny in 24 degrees. And the other one it's only seven degrees. And you're you're you know, your brass Nike monkeys at the other end.
Having Uber is so awesome. Right? So like you get off the plane, you go right. Take me to my hotel, tickety, tickety, boot, and go to the right pickup spot. And they come and get you. There's an enormous amount of convenience that's in there. But you know, sometimes if you're a bit more analog, you need somebody to kind of show you how to do it the first time. And then after that you're away. Cause you know, a lot of these apps are like, they're fairly intuitive. You just need to have that comfort of having somebody walk you through it the first time. I think...
Gary Wallace (13:11): Lovely to have your advice, Daniel. And it's great advice too this afternoon. I really appreciate that. I'm going to be certainly on my mind now when I, or if I do go traveling on the future before you go. Nashville, I've always wanted to go there. Are you going to try and catch a band or catch some music? Or what have you?
Daniel Watson (13:29): Oh, look the district there. Okay. So like the main drag, so imagine Queen street, but with that kind of more of the turn of the century feel, but every second shop is another honky-tonk bar where there's live music playing from morning to late. And then interspersed that with like cowboy hats and cowboy boot shops, it's unique and the music is fantastic and the food is very much comfort food. You feel guilty having eaten a full meal because it's carb heavy, man. It's carb heavy.
Gary Wallace (14:14): I've heard, I've heard.
Daniel Watson (14:16): Macaroni and cheese is considered a normal side. Right. So people, instead of getting a side salad, they to get a side of Mac and cheese.
Gary Wallace (14:23): Whoa, whoa, wait. That's that's a side?
Daniel Watson (14:27): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, so you can order a side. You get like a pulled pork sandwich, order sides of tater tots, fries and Mac and cheese. The color brown features heavily in the food around here.
Gary Wallace (14:42): Daniel. Very good to have on the program, Kia Ora and safe travelers to you.
Daniel Watson (14:47): All right. Look forward to getting home soon.